The End of the "N/A Lyfe"

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 02/01/2015 at 12:40 • Filed to: The future

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For some, the end of a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ; for others, the beginning of a quiet, torquey and green world. What does this mean for us enthusiasts, the market, and the future of driving, Please discuss...

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TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:45

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Turbo is not exactly green though. My Talon TSI get 20mpg maybe. And thats a 4 cyclinder. Ecoboost trucks usually dont get the MPG they claim either. Ive heard lots of complaints about that.

Also when something goes wrong with a turbo car its usually more expensive than an N/A car.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:47

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Turbos may have the edge now. But once we figure out this battery thing.

This will be the way of the future.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:48

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I really like the sound and nature of my dads car's engine. A lot.

I would be unhappy if that were to change.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 12:49

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Wait...You didn't know???

http://jalopnik.com/porsche-confir…

DoYouEvenShift > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 12:50

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Its true. I see alot of Ecoboost trucks everyday at work. And they hover around 13-15 mpg average.

TheHondaBro > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 12:50

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That, or hydrogen.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 12:50

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That's not gonna be as fun...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 12:50

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Turbo not green enough? Tell that to the govt. and the EU.

TheHondaBro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:50

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All N/A baby.

Because turbos sounds weird.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheHondaBro 02/01/2015 at 12:51

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And for the first time, I actually agree with a Honda..

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:52

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I do know, that's why I'm unhappy.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:52

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I think itll be a different kind of fun.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 12:53

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Yup ive driven a 13 f150 with the 5.0 engine and got 18-19 mpg for a few weeks

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 12:54

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Makes you wish you were born maybe 10 years earlier so you could better enjoy cars.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:54

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NA subaru motors (with unequal length headers installed) sound way better than turbo EJ motors in my opinion.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:55

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Not all turbo motors are quiet. My moms EcoBoost sounds great.

While I mourn the slow death of N/A motors, the advantages turbos have help. I think I'll live.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:55

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They can come look at my mpg. its bad. also just look at an eco boost ford. especially the trucks, they get nothing close to what they are supposed to.

I dont care about green that much, as can be seen from the exhausts on my cars, and i like turbos so really i dont mind all the turbo stuff

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 12:55

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Driving an iPad on wheels will not be fun. Driving an electric car will be nothing more than a box on wheels, an RC box car.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:55

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seriously though

f86sabre > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 12:56

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I've had turbo cars since 2000 and we currently have a turbo and a supercharger in the garage. It's all good. Being efficient in how you make power has a huge value to me.

DoYouEvenShift > TheHondaBro 02/01/2015 at 12:56

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You know, Ive never really been a fan of Hondas stuff. But a while back I drove an Accord coupe manual with that engine. And I gotta say, it sounded decent and had some good power. Not bad.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 12:56

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I have an Ecoboost Ford, I have a Focus ST, it never gets even close to EPA average no matter how its driven and what kind of gas I use. My mom's 2015 Explorer with the N/A 3.5 V6 gets better mileage than me.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/01/2015 at 12:58

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Are you kidding?? It's the same motor in my car, it didn't make any noise until I dropped in a catback! Does it have that sound symposer thing as well? Because that's probably what you're hearing. the 2.0L EB is quiet.

DoYouEvenShift > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 12:58

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Its true, the 5.0 F150s Ive driven stay around 17-19.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > E30Joe drives a Subaru 02/01/2015 at 12:59

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My had the opportunity to hear my friend's NA and turbo boxer 4s last night. The NA was much more throaty and visceral than the turbo. it was the first NA Subaru boxer I've ever heard, and it was awesome.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:00

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Yup so all the people saying turbo get better mpg i dont believe

DoYouEvenShift > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 13:01

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Agreed. I love turbos and forced induction in general. And Im not big on the green thing either. But when they advertise as one thing and doesnt come close. Thats a problem.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:01

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Turbos are cool but i still like N/A a lot. And i own both

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 13:01

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We either need to pool our money together and buy some N/A cars, or make a time machine; the latter of which may take too long.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:02

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I'm about 90% sure Ford didn't put one in the Fusion. I think it sounds raspy and incredibly loud for being in a mainstream sedan. It's nice and quiet when your just driving normally though.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:03

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Yea it may come back to bite them.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:07

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Agreed, Apple should not make a car.

But when I drove a Model S I had a blast.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 02/01/2015 at 13:07

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Using turbos for "increased" fuel economy is BS and false economy. They need to stop advertising them as such. "A turbo 4 with the power of a V6 but even worse MPG".

They're simply using turbos as a way to cheat the system at our expense.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/01/2015 at 13:08

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It must be some difference in piping and exhaust, because if that's the case, it's louder than my ST was stock!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:09

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I just cannot stand driving without some form of engine noise. It just so boring!!

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:13

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or just buy used cars with N/A engines for the rest of our lives until they're illegal

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:13

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It could open up a new experience. Like BMW and Ford do. One day you can make it sound like an F1 car, or the next a Top Fuel dragster, even a Cummins if you like that.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 13:18

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Then we run an underground N/A cartel like Smokey and the Bandit and say "fuck the system"!!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:19

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That's so artificial and fake. How is that a good thing? What kind of experience is that? A fake one?

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:20

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We'll see what time and technology and the market bring. In the 70's it looked like the V8 was dead. In the early 80's it certainly looked like we were just getting further down that road. By the end of the 80's the technology improved so V8's were demonstrating improved fuel efficiency and lower emissions. At the time turbo lag was not providing the desired performance. Time and technology have changed that quite a bit. Now there are numerous V8 options with HP and torque over 350. So time and technology have brought both further along. Governments can legislate all they want, the marketplace still effects what manufacturers provide. If the turbos and superchargers of the future meet the desires of the market, the NA's will fade away. If they don't, businesses will find a way to keep the NA's going. Same goes for the manual transmission.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:21

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Majority of Subaru's are N/A. Really only the performance (Read: WRX) is Turbo.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:23

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Formula 1 is quite the opposite on the "high revving"

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 02/01/2015 at 13:23

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You did read the article right? What were your thoughts?

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:23

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I dont know what to tell you man. All I know is my experience with electric cars in a Tesla was awesome. Each his own, Ill take a silent electric car over the sound of most 4 bangers. Thats my own opinion though.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:26

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Not to mention most drivers are so inattentive/absentminded that if everyone drove silent cars, I bet accidents would increase so much it's not even funny. You won't be able to here people or see them coming, what good is that?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > OkCars- 22k Crossroads 02/01/2015 at 13:26

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We don't drive Formula 1 cars do we..

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:29

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True. But you cant cater to the stupid. That would be a shitty world, and were getting to that point. They can take the bus.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:34

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The world is getting shittier, and I'm not quite sure how electric cars are going to make the world better. No one is going to take the bus and you know that; especially with the safety and cleanliness issues that it provides. You can't fix stupid, nor can you fix stupid. This is a lose-lose situation.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:35

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I disagree

Don't panic just yet. There's still a little while before they're completely gone. And it's not like there isn't used cars. There are plenty of low mile meticulously kept cars out there.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 02/01/2015 at 13:40

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That may be the first and last of it's kind :(

And even if it's used it's value will have appreciated to the point of being unattainable.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:42

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I don't see myself ever buying my main car as a turbocharged car, supercharged yes, but not turbocharged. Even if that means never buying a new car again.

I have my eye set on a GT350 in a few years, and hopefully an STi for winter.

When I was shopping for my Genesis, I tried the turbo 2.0 and I absolutely hated it, couldn't get the clutch release correct and just hated waiting for the power to come in.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:43

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I dont think anyone said electric cars will fix the future anymore than high revving na motors will.

How about this example, a guy I work with kept gettin DWIs. They revoked his license. Guess how hes been getting to work. Thats right, a bus. So while you cant fix stupid, you can take them out of the equation.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 02/01/2015 at 13:50

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I may not ever buy a new car after the ST. Too many computers and sensors and things I don't need or care for.

I only need a car with AC/Heat, radio and seats and whatever engine I want. I don't need cameras and parking sensors and premium sound and whatnot.

gergey - Wishes vette was Datsun > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:51

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My roommate has a BRZ with unequal length headers and an air intake, has the most delightful rumble. The garage is under the living room, when he starts it the floor shakes.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > gergey - Wishes vette was Datsun 02/01/2015 at 13:56

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I remember sitting in the Sonic Drive-Thru when one with UEL's passed by on the highway. That noise is amazing.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 13:58

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Yes, but can you un-revoke a license? Can they get it back? Because if they can, it's not the most effective solution. You can only take them out of the equation for so long.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 13:59

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No I did not, I read your intro and I guessed at it. So now I went back and read it. No surprises.

I stand by what I said. If the turbos and supercharges adequately meet the marketplace demands then the NA stuff will fade away. If it doesn't and the NA technology can be improved upon and answer the market demand, then the NA stuff will survive or recover. It matters not if the German automakers all dump their NA answers. If the technology and the market dictate that NA survives then it will survive. The manufacturers will come back to it. If NA doesn't everyone will give up on it.

The market demand for performance didn't go away in the malaise era, the ability for the manufactures to provide it did. If there is a market demand, an ability to satisfy it will normally follow.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:02

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Im not sure really, maybe it depends on the severity of the case? Ive never had to deal with it personally. Im guessing they give it back after a while/fines. If they learn, it never happens again. If it does, jail time?

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:05

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I wouldn't be so sure of that. There is a top of the line HP monster Mustang coming and I think it'll overshadow the GT350 and bring prices down. Or at least that's what I want to happen. Look at 07 GT500's, you can get a clean one for 30K. 30K for a 500HP Mustang with tons of potential for more power if you wanted. That's kind of crazy.

You used to be able to get a clean very low mileage Mach 1 for 15K with around 15K miles on it. Incidentally lately prices have gone up but there were some amazing deals out there.

I think the only GT350's that will truly appreciate will have no miles on them. You'll find decently priced clean GT350's out there. It's all about looking at the right time.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift 02/01/2015 at 14:09

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Nor have I, but from what I've seen and read, stupidity cannot be fixed.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:21

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It sounds like an old rally car and I like it.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:23

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Not in the civilized world at least haha.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:41

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NEVER!

I WILL NOT GIVE IN

#NA4LYFE

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 14:42

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NEVER GIVE IN

WE WILL NOT LET THE TERRORISTS WIN

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 14:46

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It's okay, I know the denial... :(

You cannot fight the system.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:47

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I do, on xbox, besides, who cares if we dont drive them, everybody misses the screaming N/a

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:48

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Yes I am super in denial...

I do have on exception to make you happy

I will allow myself exactly one (1) turbo charged + DCT car in the future. It will not be my DD. But if I had kids I would get a Macan or something like that to use when taking the whole family out to dinner and stuff like that. But when driving solo to work I will always drive ze old N/A cars!

promoted by the color red > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:52

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It's kind of our fault too. Making big N/A power from I4 engines gets expensive quickly and isn't necessarily practical for daily driving. Take the FRS and the upcoming Miata for example. We have these high-revving N/A cars sending power to RWD as God intended, and all we do is complain because they only have 1XX horsepower and no turbos.

My high-revving Honda was super fun to beat on, but it was extremely loud - while incredibly close to your ear drums - and the lack of torque really was a PITA in certain situations. The market evidently thought the same, so Honda giveth the current Civic Si with low-end torque and taketh the 8000 RPM away.

I'm sure N/A will find a way. Plus there's no law saying you can't buy an older car or yank the turbos on a Focus ST and build it into a N/A monster.

Eazy-O > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 14:53

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Wow. Such ignorance. :D

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 14:56

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what I think will actually happen:

laws will start to make it hard for manufacturers to make N/A engines in the future

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 14:56

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I know

But we can still resist by purchasing used cars!

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 14:58

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that's what I said!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 14:58

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We can work this out..

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 15:00

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Unless the gov takes away our ability to buy used cars then we are set!

I'm seriously thinking that I will just keep buying E9X M3s over and over again. If mine gets in a wreck or has a ton of miles on it and it's easier to just buy a lower mileage one than refurbish mine then BOOM - another M3.

There are a zillion of them and they can be had with Manuél. And you can have 4 doors or 2 when you really feel like having a CF roof.

Everyone should own an E9X M3 at one point in their life.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 15:01

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By purchasing Macans...

CAcoalminer says the Macan as the best seats in the world

I am intrigued

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 15:01

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yes

they really should

but I want a defender right now

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro 02/01/2015 at 15:03

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you will eventually have a house with a lot of parking and buy ALL THE CARS

Axial > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 15:10

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Ferrari has confirmed that, moving forward, all of its engines will be either hybridized or turbocharged. Having already driven one new turbocharged model at the time of this writing, it's safe to say none of them will have the light-switch power delivery of the indelible F40.

But...that was the best part about the F40 and is the best part about any turbo car...

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari 02/01/2015 at 15:10

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yes pls

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Eazy-O 02/01/2015 at 15:36

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Wow. such opinions, and since I don't think you can prove me wrong, you can most certainly try.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Axial 02/01/2015 at 15:37

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IT'S NOT A FUCKING F40, NO FERRARI MADE FROM NOW ON OR EVER WILL BE THE F40 OTHER THAN THE F40, STOP LYING TO YOURSELF AND OPEN YOUR EYES!!

Eazy-O > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 15:54

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I ain't got shit to prove to whiny little brats. Especially since your most recent reply to me was the epitome of ignorance. :) Your previous post, however, was the Mt. Everest of stupidity:

Driving an iPad on wheels will not be fun. Driving an electric car will be nothing more than a box on wheels, an RC box car.

Yes, I decided to call you names, because you sling your opinions around like monkeys sling shit at the zoo, without checking any of your information. No wonder people shunned you off Oppo. Anyway, go find some videos of performance EVs and come back a more mature person.

An aside: I was nearly ran over by a fairly silent Honda Jazz the other day, coasting at about 20kph. Its sound was drowned out in the general city noise. The electric whine of a Citroen C-Zero, I could hear. It's not all in the volume, frequency plays an important role.

Feel free to ignore the entirety of my post, if your idea of driving fun is making wroom wroom noises from the passenger seat. :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Eazy-O 02/01/2015 at 16:16

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The only one being immature here is you. I'm not the one that immediately dropped down to a trolling status, nor did I call anyone names or criticize them for anything. All I've done is say what I think of EV cars and nothing more. All I see from the first half of this post is nothing more than a shit stirrer.

Was it the most logical or most reasonable opinion? Probably not even close, it's just how I feel; and clearly we do not share the same sentiments. That's perfectly fine. I will admit it was definitely an over exaggeration at best.

I've seen plenty of performance EV videos, the Electric Miata drag car, the R18 E-Tron, the DeltaWing. I'm well aware of what they're capable of, they simply do not interest me in the way an actual combustion engine does. Watching those videos did not change my opinions of what I think about EVs. Yes, they unload crazy amounts of torque and power in an instant, and their technologically further ahead of many if not all ICEs, it just doesn't really interest me that much.

Frequency of sound most definitely does and will continue to play a role in the development of future EVs and safety, and if there's any ONE thing I'm interested, it would be to see how they use frequency as a means of alerting pedestrians and other drivers of your presence on streets, cities, roads, what have you.

That aside, I really can't see what you thought you'd gain from writing a post like that. Perhaps in an attempt to try to provoke me act like a "whiny brat" with profanity and rude commentary like a traditional YouTube commentor; especially by bringing up a past event at a time when I was not in the best mental state; good job. If that WAS your intention, nice try but it was a failed attempt. Actually I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that you went through all the trouble to write that post or if you searched through all the comments here just to find mine or one like it, I digress. :)

Reading your post a second time, you do seem to be quite knowledgeable on the topic of EVs, so if you'd like to bury the hatchet and leave the past in the past, I'd more than like to hear your thoughts on EVs and the technological enhancements that come with it. :)

NJAnon > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 18:21

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I guess all the SLS AMG's & Ferrari Berlinetta's & Vipers don't impress anyone anymore. #Gettinitdonewithouthelp

I'm hoping this "trend" will pass. I haven't seen any mass market low end supercharged car survive. I don't see why getting HP from an engine is difficult all of a sudden without another component. Did car engineers get weak?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NJAnon 02/01/2015 at 18:29

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When the govt. and the EPA and EU(ecologists in general) have their fingers stuck up automakers butts in the name of reducing emissions and increasing fuel economy, this is the result right here.

Unfortunately if you have read the article, there's no walking away from this trend until we're ll driving EVs

NJAnon > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/01/2015 at 19:04

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Then I'll need to start praying harder. :)